Curse

kallikukur · May 13, 2012, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

GW2 PvP takes everything that made GW1 PvP unique and perfect and puts it in a little trash bag in the alley to be picked up the next morning.

*deleted the need for 8 man teams because developers couldn't get 7 other friends to play with them

*deleted any decent tactics in long matches because - quite frankly - that actually took some skill and 15 minute cluster fks are a better solution to that (sarcasm)

*made a deformed love child between RA and costume brawls when neither are the same PvP style that GW1 prided itself on

If you love the current GW2 PvP then you are a casual gamer and you won't understand the significance and feeling GvG had.

I hope they add some sort of "gw 1 pvp" competetive area where the game modes from gw1 along with something new and fresh would be up for playing.
The pvp in gw2 (pug) has been quite chaotic and not "set to stone" like esport games such as counter strike and guild wars 1 are.

MithranArkanere · May 13, 2012, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

[...]

It's not as simple as that.
And you saying "if you disagree with me you know nothing" won't make you right.

- The more people is there in a battle, the less important each one is.
1/5 is bigger than 1/8, and so 1-1/5 is smaller than 1-1/8. And so removing 1 from 5 makes a bigger impact than removing 1 from 8.
That is pure, undeniable mathematics.
They probably tested several numbers with the size of the current conquest maps, and found that 5 was the best one for that format.

- The chaos you've seen in PvP derives from the young age of the game. Not everyone gets the 'feel' of the game as fast, so many tend to just pitch in and spam stuff to see if something happens, just like in the first days of many other games.
That doesn't mean that using skills with more wisdom won't work better, from what I've seen in the beta, those that just spam won't do as well as those that use their heads, position themselves, look around, time properly their actions, work together and go for combos. Some are even able to solo the 50-point bosses, while others would not be able to do that in ages.
So there's certainly levels of skill involved.

- There's also skill balance to do. The game will not be released exactly as it's in the betas. Well, I suppose any changes they make won't make you change your opinion, anyways.
But it's not like they won't add more arenas and more victory formats. The thing about MMOs is that they are often everchanging.
The PvP we've seen is just the random matches, and WvW isn't really PvP. We are yet to see the Tournaments.
Too many modes spread the playerbase, but too few modes and maps become boring and repetitive after some time.

- GW2 is not GW1 HD. Diablo III is not Diablo II HD. Counter Strike:GO is not Counter Strike 1.6 HD.
Some people can't wrap their heads about that for some reason.
Not giving them a try - an actual try - is a mistake.
I've seen in every sequel game people complaining about things that change. Well, excepting Final Fantasy. Complaining about mechanic changes in a Final Fantasy would be one of the most absurd things one could do, since it has happened so much that it has been accepted already.
When people complain about changes between titles, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, and sometimes it's just a matter of taste.
When players present feedback properly and ANet thinks that they are right, they often make changes if they have time and resources for it, unless it's a core mechanic they won't or can't part with. And when it's a matter of taste, well, then it's about building support from the community and having patience.

- There's the delusion of calling 'casual' a game that is comfortable to play without unnecessarily obscure mechanics.
Well, here's the thing. There's no "casual games". There's only casual players.
Even if a game is designed to favor casual play, one can become a hardcore player of it.
I bet there's a Connect Four world championship, for Grenth's sake.
Without making things too complex, you ensure that people that enter PvP for the first time won't meet a quick end. Even if they do get killed, they will at least do something. You often get this in well-balanced FPSs. No matter how good you are, if the game is well balanced, you are always at risk of losing.
This means than instead having ragequitters because one noob has a horrible build, or people that leaves PvP frustrated for not being able to do well with the random builds they'll come up with, the noob at least can play noobishly and do something. If they just spam combo fields, you can at least use them to your advantage. If they just waste their time doing little damage, at least you an go behind the enemy at attack for more damage while they are distracted.
The less frustrated people leaving PvP and never coming back, and the less people that hate newbies, the more fun everyone has, and the more fresh meat for those that favor PvP and manage to get really good at it, without them being too easy to defeat, so things like 'farming RA' are no longer something that anyone can say.

There can be a high skill ceiling without making the 'floor' too low.
You don't need 'noobs' to have 'pros'.

The immense number of skills combinations you have in GW1, compared with the small number of viable skill combinations is one of the biggest noob traps I've ever seen in any game. We've all seen ridiculously bad builds unknowingly being used in PvP, and the horrible responses they get from other players in both their team and the opposing team.
Those things don't make you better, they only make others worse.
You don't have to purposefully add 'noob traps' mechanics for new players to fall in them so other players can be better. If you need to have that kind of stuff to be better than others, then you are not that good in the first place. Making builds might not be as fun when there's less diverse combinations, but at least there's more viable combinations to use.

*lemming* · May 13, 2012, 11:01 PM // 23:01

1. This isn't a GW2 PvP design thread. Take it to guru2.

2. Is this post supposed to be serious?

Motoko · May 14, 2012, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Join Date: Sep 2010 - This may or may not be your join date for the game itself, I just thought if it was close to it, it may have some relavance to your ideas.

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